July 11, 2013
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Sex. Yeah, I'll Make This Public
To those who say there is an expectation of pain, whether good or bad, when you have sex:
You don't understand what real sex is. You, male, may understand humping. You, male, may understand many physical responses. But no, you don't understand a woman and HER sex. If you think there is an element of pain, it's because you didn't wait until she was ready for you. You just forged ahead like a bat out of hell (or rather into heaven) and had your way. Eventually she, out of HER love for YOU, probably adjusted without too much crying, and woo-hoo, there was a party in her tummy. So yummy, so yummy yummy.
But that initial pain was your fault and was unnecessary.
Because if you loved her the way she loved you, you would have been gentle with her. You wouldn't have forced your way in when she wasn't there yet. You would have gently waited, easing her, teasing her, and pleasing her until she was actually ready. She shouldn't have HAD to adjust to your foreign occupation, like a militarized warzone.
This is particularly true for any woman with a history of sexual abuse. Who has been taught that sex hurts. Women like me. I was a virgin when I was raped. Women who were molested also fall into this category. The category of women who must learn that sex feels good. Who have something to overcome before that's possible. Who have a memory that sex=pain.
So to those out there who say that sex has an expectation of pain, whether good or bad? I say there is no such thing as good pain when it comes to sex. It wouldn't then be described as "pain." Another word would be used, what a lucky thing that as humans we have so many words. Don't go around giving the expectation of painful sex as normal to any woman, particularly if you know she has a history of abuse. Your words are nothing but fodder for the corner of her mind that would poison her - his corner, the abuser's corner.
Sex should be love. Love should be gentle and kind. It doesn't just forge ahead, unmindful.
Comments (52)
I agree 100%. Those who think pleasure must be accompanied by pain are either masochists or being misled. Sex is supposed to be pleasurable for BOTH people involved. Otherwise, the other person is simply a tool for masturbation.
Yep, pretty much! Well said!
Truuuuue that.
I agree with you. I have been married many years and had to learn to take it slower, not rush, and listen to her. Sadly, I think too many women do experience pain unnecessarily.
Very true. I liked this.
Good advice.
Definitely right. Well said; well put.
Rec'd.
Thank you for this post.
I'm surprised no one has said anything contradictory, yet. Go to almost any datingish sex post and you'll find people saying, "yeah man, sex hurts at first, but then you get used to it." Or some variation of that idea. This is a common misconception/bad sex practice. It was even told to a friend of mine earlier today by a well-meaning buddy of hers. This is a highly propagated thought process and unfortunately, sexual practice.
Foreplay, yes. I was instructed in great clinical detail by a partner who had a master's degree in public health. It was the best possible lesson. I find that foreplay is very important when you wish to engage in Rodeo Sex.
I've never seen anyone say anything even remotely like that. It may have happened here and there, but I've read a lot of posts on datingish regarding sex and can't remember a single time that's been presented.
As for your points, some of them are spot on and others are your opinion presented as gospel fact. That's where I have a problem with this post, and why I'm the first one to make a contradictory comment.
For your merit, I'll say that a man absolutely should be as attentive to her needs and wants as he is to his own (and vice versa because, let's face it, there are women just as sexually greedy and expectant- you're not all princesses despite your claims of such). However, the only other thing that sex should be is precisely what both members involved want it to be. Whether you like it or not, you've no place to say that sex should be "gentle and kind" or that there's "no good pain" when it comes to sex. That may not be your bag of tricks, but I assure you there most certainly ARE good pains when it comes to sex. Pain from entry before she is ready, well that's not necessarily good, but it's not also inherently bad- some chicks actually DO like the heat of the moment, 'get in me now' kind of hurt... and that's not the only sexual pain there is, either.
But my real problem with your post is the militant feminist attitude it reeks of. News flash- women aren't unequal, sexually. It's funny, all this talk of women's equality, unless it comes to sex and suddenly you all revert back to these prizes to be won, wooed and romanced- as though you're completely devoid of your own sexual desires and interests unless the alpha male properly conquers you. You're also not without obligations in a sexual relationship, either- if we're supposed to take our time with you and "warm you up" it's not because you're some precious flower that we're to adore and nurture... it's because you're a fellow human with whom we're about to be intimate with, and it's a show of our love for you as our partner, not as a weak item we're to compassionately conquer.
@Doug Bo@facebook - The Doug, it's no great mystery why you are single. And welcome back to my page. Also, the next time you're being penetrated, you can come back and talk to me of sex and who holds reverence. Until then, occupier, calm yourself and tread carefully.
Interesting word choice, sexual obligation. Sounds like love to me. Either that or psychological abuse and almost assault.
Yes, yes, and yes...that's why I think S & M is....weird....hope I won't get bitch-slapped for saying that, but I think mixing pain with pleasure is always a risky business.
I 85% disagree with this. If both parties are (consenting) virgins who don't know much about sex, it will hurt the first couple of times no matter how physically ready (wet) the female is, especially if you still have your hymen intact. I'm speaking from personal experience as well as my female friends' first time experiences--no matter how lubed up the vagina is, if it has never been penetrated by anything but a thin tampon before, the opening will be quite small and the actual vagina will be tight and that will inevitably create pain during thrusting. It'll only adjust to the penis size over time (if you're lucky, after the first 2-3 times).
Now I know the intent of your post was mainly to vent about your past sexual abuse incident, and I'm truly sorry you experienced that. But I don't think it is fair to the entirety of the male population to get the complete burden of the pain females experience during first time consensual intercourse. Or for later pain for that matter. Pain is natural for the first time, and even for veterans: some vaginas are just inherently smaller than others and shrink back without frequent use and that will be painful. and while is is technically caused by the intrusion of the penis, it's not the male's fault that the female body was built that way (but yes they should try to warm it up first)
@nepenthium - If I had wanted to write a post about my past sexual abuse experience, I would have. Because I'm direct like that. This was not an attempt to breach that subject with my readers, who were, prior to today, close friends.
I recognize that people will read this with their own experience and that that will color their opinion on what I've said, whether that was my intent or not.
That is the beauty and the ugly of the written word. That what the author and reader experience may not parallel.
@nepenthium - 100% agreed with your comment.
By the way, real quick science lesson: full female arousal is not measured by her wetness.
Yup!
OK, so anyone who comments here with any disagreement about your post will get lambasted by you and accused of being less human when it comes to sexuality. Why be so intolerant? Can't you conceive of the possibility that some women are not completely like you? My SO and I have incredibly tender and loving sex, but there are also times when she tells me she wants to do it hard and fast. I take my cues from her. I hope you can resist the temptation to call me animalistic or question how I could possibly be married (by the way, for 16 years to a smart and independent woman), and just consider the possibility that the way you like sex is not necessarily the same way others like sex. It is a big world out there with a lot of different tastes and I respectfully suggest that your tastes are not the only ones and not the "correct" ones. My two cents.
@icedteasgp - You misunderstand my post. I did not ever say that sex as agreed upon by both parties and enjoyed by both parties, not just where one accommodates the other, was not good sex. Others have added that in comments, but I never said it. What two adults agree to is between them, but should always be mutually satisfactory. We are not in disagreement about that. This is about when one partner lacks compassion for the other and in the heat of the moment, requires his partner to feel pain because he doesn't feel like contributing to her pleasure by waiting for her arousal - which is her body's physical consent - first.
I've been there an agree %100 with your post. Had I posted on rape ..I'd have sounded over-emotional, and irrational. Rec'd..and impressed and overwhelmed by your calmness to such an unnerving experience and highly traumatic experience.
Zxx
@PrincessPowers - I'm single because I divorced my wife, and I'm single because I've not bothered to look for another date in recent months. I'm single because I've been an over the road truck driver, working fourteen hour days, seven days a week, for the last nine years. I'm single because the risk that you're not the only female like you out there is far too immense to take the chance of dating again. Is that seriously the best that you have? I am single, therefore I must be absolutely wrong about anything that even remotely addresses relationship issues? Infantile, at best. I've come to find that when someone resorts solely to ad hom attacks, it's generally because they know full well they can't rest on the validity of their argument.
I do find it interesting, however, that you didn't actually have any tangible response to my comment. I wasn't disrespectful, I wasn't insulting, I didn't even realize until right now that you were who you are. Sure, I had a particular bias to my comment, but if that's a fault then your post is just as guilty. Hold a grudge, much?
Now, on to the merits:
You say-
"the next time you're being penetrated, you can come back and talk to me of sex and who holds reverence. Until then, occupier, calm yourself and tread carefully."
Aside from the fact that this comment is so utterly absurd, biased, and clearly stemming from a mindset of victimization, it's also a red herring. Sexual intercourse is, regardless of who enters who, a consensual act in it's design and purpose. (Please don't waste my time telling me that girls are raped. We all know that, and it's irrelevant in that your post isn't about victims of rape, but of consensual sex, therefore the context is already decided which permits me to speak under the same presupposition) Because it's a consensual act, both parties play their respective parts, and both parties understand their respective parts. Because of this, there is no "reverence" owed based purely on being the one penetrated, as the one penetrated fully allows such act to happen. What you're proposing is as preposterous as if I were to allege that as a male I am owed more reverence because the woman's vagina imprisons, suffocates, and holds hostage my penis- not to mention the fact that I'm forced to be subjected to all sorts of bacteria that naturally occurs inside a woman's vagina. Both notions are absolutely preposterous... to anyone with a rational mind, that is.
"Interesting word choice, sexual obligation. Sounds like love to me. Either that or psychological abuse and almost assault."
Oh, really? I'm confused now, because you said in your post-
"Because if you loved her the way she loved you, you would have been gentle with her. You wouldn't have forced your way in when she wasn't there yet. You would have gently waited, easing her, teasing her, and pleasing her until she was actually ready. She shouldn't have HAD to adjust to your foreign occupation, like a militarized warzone."
...and that sure as hell reeks of "obligation" on the man's part to me. Perhaps you didn't actually use the word "obligation" but you sure as hell presented one in your own arguments... so I expect you'll be revising your position now, since sexual obligations are clearly nothing more than psychological abuse, bordering on assault.
Why don't you just go ahead and say it Sarah, why beat around the bush using thinly veiled arguments that hold no weight under even the most elementary subjection to critical thinking?
You're a militant feminist, you think that a woman is to be worshiped for no other reason than that she has a vagina, and while we're at it let's just go ahead and get it out there that you can't handle a dissenting view without lambasting the person who offers it, as others here have noted as well.
@nepenthium - Well said. Unfortunately, with some people reality/facts/logic are far less important than their own emotions and feelings on a matter.
@icedteasgp - You're a male, remember? You're not allowed to comment on the feelings a woman experiences during sex, even if she herself tells you-because clearly she's just lying to you out of HER love for YOU and she's only doing that because she's afraid of you. You OCCUPIER!
There can also be pain that is not physical... You just never know with a person.
If this post is about the first time you have sex, then yes there is going to be some pain involved if your hymen is intact. I took it to mean sex between two consenting adults. I agree that the man in your life should be aware of your needs. I came back b/c of a rec. I did not feel like typing a responses on my phone. while I understand and I can agree with you. I agree with.@Doug Bo@facebook - more.
I figured you were talking about relationships where there is abuse or the line between consensual and not consensual was fuzzy. I thought this because I don't understand having a relationship, one that is healthy,.with anyone who ignores your needs, wants, and desires. Things like what you are describing shouldn't happen if you are in a relationship where the person respects your sexual boundaries.
Like Doug said, it is not all the males responsiblity. You have to make your needs known. You have to be clear about your boundaries. You have to discuss your past abuse with your partner. If he chooses to ignore you, find someone else.
Again, I thought this was talking about abuse. The only time I have ever had painful sex after the first few times were because the guy wanted it to hurt...abuse. I did not know this was an open post to all guys telling them to not abuse their girlfriends.
Basically, after reading some of these comments, I wanted to come back and say...
thank you for posting this!
@Megabyyte - Love you, Megan.
We got this.
@PrincessPowers - Love you, too, Sarah! We certainly do!
Sometimes there is pain and sometimes I enjoy that, I think that some people like rough sex and I've had my fair share of it with an ex bf of mine and it wasn't out of me not wanting to say anything it was just that was the sex we had at the time. Not all sex is slow and gentle every time, that's just boring. I do hear what you're saying from a rape/abuse standpoint. I think the topic is different for people who associate pain during sex with that. I don't really think that you should speak on behalf of all women. It's certaintly not my opinion. But perhaps I have been blessed with previous partners who I could talk openly with and enjoy sex in all it's forms. Everyone is different, and yes sex sometimes does hurt but it shouldn't hurt the whole time. Then it wouldn't even be enjoyable. Don't know if this makes sense but it's my opinion on the matter.
And talking about the first time, my first time was extremely gentle, and full of love and he didn't want to hurt me and there was still pain. He was generous and selfless in the bedroom, he wasn't humping me as a mere male trying to get what he wants. That's very unfair to men.
Sex is pain because we keep hearing others said it. Most of us don't have enough sex knowledge. We just learn by trial and error. When young, our parents don't let us know about sex, just saying that when we grow up next time, we will understand sex.
There are a lot of misinformation and myths about sex out there.
I'm female and I don't feel love. I feel urges and usually satisfy them by myself. when another person is involved I tend to fid that a bit icky. I told a boyfriend that sex is like masturbating while a dog is all over you. Sex has an element of ickiness. The first time I did it, it did hurt even though I wanted it and my boyfriend felt bad...but that was just the hymen I suppose.
I do get you in that I don't understand why many people "like it rough" (and see this as the only possible and desirable way of doing it)though. I haven't been sexually abused or otherwise physically abused (minus a few slaps as a very young kid) but to me inflicting pain on anoher person is respectless. No matter in which situation, we should take care of one another and not push us againt walls, tie us to beds and make us helpless and whip each other. (well that's how *I* feel.) I suppose some people want to explore their emotional limits or something, but I don't understand the appeal. (And I agree, I suppose if both really agree it's not "pain"...I would say "exitement.") In any case we should show we care and ask how they feel, not just do something, and not pressure either.
To those defending 'men' and say they don't have that responsibilty:
I agree with the OP that they should NOT assume a woman likes pain, or that it's not REAL sex without a little roughness. It's only that I wouldn't make such a link between this (rather emotional/intellectual) pereception of sex, and the gender. Women, of course, should not handcuff their men and make fun of them if they don't like it either.
P.S.: sorry I edited that so often, but I needed to make clear I don't judge people with differnt preferances...it's tricky to not offend anyone sometimes.
The subject of this post is so strange. It's as though we've committed some new human rights violation - going too hard on the first try. So unusual.
What's next?
"You don't understand HER food, HER diet. Putting too much mustard on her hot dog that first time - that was your fault, and totally unnecessary."
"Putting that much barbeque sauce on her beef patty that first time - that was your fault, and unnecessary."
"Playfully tackling her while playing flag football when she wasn't looking - that was your fault, and unnecessary."
I can't wait to see the new Dove commercials about women strong enough to beat this kind of abuse.
I'm amazed at the tendency for people to read the exact same post that everyone else has read and yet, because of personal filters or whatever else (hay, we all have them), come away with distinctly opposing views. Surely I wasn't the ONLY one who completely understood that this post was NOT talking about the pain associated with virginity or consensual "rough sex" between two individuals.
I mean, I found it rather straightforward when she said "you didn't wait until she was ready for you" to mean the act of penetration was either non-consensual or the guy's just not paying attention. And to then justify this disregard of her comfort by trying to convince her "sex has an expectation of pain" would be completely selfish and uncaring.
It wasn't a commentary on sexual preference or a slam to men everywhere. It was pointed and specific. And here I thought objective reading was a given.
@MyxlDove - Some folks just have to make it about men vs women....
@nyclegodesi24 - Could you be more obtuse? You cannot possibly be serious with that comment. That or you didn't read, or to you, everything is about men vs women.
The post was clearly about when men (or even lesbian partners) just try to shove it in without any preparation. Christ, the first line spelled it out prefectly... "To those who say there is an expectation of pain..." Really don't see how it can be much more clearer than that.
Imagine this: gril riding you cowgirl style. It slips out, she slams down on it, it bends, it hurts like hell. She tells you "what? It's supposed to hurt a little" and just keeps doing it, and does it every single time you have sex. And basically tells you to deal with it and to expect it. Regardless of how much it hurts.
I know some men who pride themselves on how much they can make a woman gasp in pain during sex. They take it as a sense of pride, like "LOOK WHAT MY BIG COCK DID!" Now, there are some other reasons for pain during sex that I have had to get used to, not because of his impatience, but because my cervix floats and moves and folds sometimes. Physically straightening it out and putting it in place is painful.
But I concede. Most men I have been with talk about the moment being so INTENSE that they just have to get in there. Men can be very good at making the sex about them and their immediate needs.
@grim_truth - I am not obtuse, or generally into the men v. women thing. In fact, since I hadn't said this earlier, to clear up a possible misassumption you might make of me, I totally agree that sex should be consensual and loving, for the mutual satisfaction of both people, not for the domination of one by the other - I believe it.
But it's this idea that any pain in sex is bad pain, that the idea that there is good pain in sex is false - coupled with the insinuation that it's the man's fault - is what I find so unusual. I can understand that a person who has been hurt in the past would form an aversion to the idea that sex necessarily involves some degree of pain, and has spread that aversion to the idea that even love could be at times painful. But it's still true that sex necessarily involves some pain, and that even love necessarily involves some vivid pain. Maybe that wasn't clear in my previous post, but I hope this clarifies my point.
@under_the_carpet - I don't particularly enjoy masturbating with a dog all over me. I mean, not as much as I used to. There is an element of ickiness. Sex is icky, but dog sex is tricky and even more sticky. Will the dog get to use a strap-on? That is entirely icky.
But seriously, I don't really get how sex is supposed to work. Two people get together naked or nearly naked and suddenly, BAM, one person's appendage goes inside the other. It's a goddamn miracle. Do they push each other against the walls? Probably. Do they tie the dog to the bed? No doubt.
I apologize for the misunderstanding. Forgive me. I better go handcuff that damn dog.
@nyclegodesi24 - "But it's still true that sex necessarily involves some pain, and that even love necessarily involves some vivid pain." There you go, propagating the misconception that sex must by default involve pain. It made me so mad to read that, I've taken my time coming back to reply because I'm trying my best to get unheated. But there is no reasonable means to reply except with the fact that you are wrong. And you're wrong for saying so, too.
Talk to a gynecologist. See what they tell you. Talk to a sex therapist. See what they tell you. Sex does not, by default, necessitate pain. How incredible that you say so. I'm disgusted.
"But there is no reasonable means to reply except with the fact that you are wrong. And you're wrong for saying so, too."
Well, then. I am not an expert, and I do not want to talk to my gynecologist uncle about sex. And WebMD is unhelpful. I frankly admit my reasons for the assertion that some pain may be inevitable is conjectural. So if you have information that says otherwise, I would gladly appreciate it.
Good day.
@PrincessPowers - Do you think possibly, the use of the term pain is what is wrong? As you say in the piece, maybe another term needs to be used...
I've viewed some types of pain as a good indicators. If I have discomfort.... I keep going, if it turns to 'pain' I stop. Pain is not enjoyable. Maybe some have the idea that 'pain' needs to be accepted, conquered?
it just seems that is the word that is triggering a lot of emotion in the comments...
@nyclegodesi24 - This was a cursory search just to please your request. From psychologytoday, and the sources are named at the bottom of the article in addition: LINK.
"Sex should never hurt
Attention, men: Except
for consensual BDSM, sex should never hurt. Some men feel so eager to
plunge into intercourse that they dismiss women’s complaints of pain.
Big mistake"
...from the article.
@PrincessPowers - Thanks.
@PrincessPowers - I love you.
I think men might have an understanding someone tried to PLUNGE into their asshole like the plunge into a vagina. Soft tissue tears and rips. If that is an indication they are doing it right or it is okay, I thank my good judgement not to be sleeping with them.
@nyclegodesi24 - It is completely false that there must be some pain during sex. (keep in mind that "good pain" isn't pain at all but excitement, such as playful biting) I thought the article was pretty clear in that it was discussing how a man may at times, just say the hell with it and force it in, paying no regard to if the woman has been prepared or not (in other words, she isn't wet, and her body isn't just naturally accepting of the penis). Does it happen from time to time that a guy will try and she's not ready? Absolutely. But that's not the actual topic from the way I read it. It's when the guy doesn't give a shit if she's not ready and just expects that to be normal.
When a man pays attention, we can most certainly tell if her body is ready or not. When it's not, I'll stop and do something else to get her ready, whether it be use fingers, or oral or whatever it may be.
It would be like having a chick that likes to bite while performing oral. Not just using a bit of her teeth, but full bore biting. Imagine how much that would hurt. How uncomfortable it would be and how much it would ruing the blowjob. Now, imagine her telling you "hey oral is supposed to be like that, and I'm just going to bite." We all know oral isn't supposed to be like that, and certainly doesn't have to be like that, and it can be done without the pain.
Intercourse is the same way.
If it's pleasurable, it really isn't pain. If it's discomfort, it's not necessarily pain (think more along the lines of an awkward position, tolerable, but not very enjoyable). Pain would be like a guy being in such a position, all focus is lost and he loses the erection because of it.
Well said. I hope your current Significant Other helps you out in the areas you mentioned(literally and figuratively).
Wow, you got a lot of hits on this one! And people have said pretty much everything there is to say about it too. ha!
I agree with this and my name is Doug also and I was a truck driver for a short time. We're not created equal in no respects. Some people just like to be independent and I thought I did for a while there after retiring from the military. Pay was miniscule though and with a family, you can't make it on that.
Great post Sarah.
@SasGal - OUCH! LOL Good comparison but I think those uhm, orifices are slightly different in a few ways. But I see your point, I mean your idea at least.
some interesting responses to be sure. I am sorry that anyone has or had to suffer from abuse but I am glad you could let the past go and still have a positive experience.
Interesting comments.
When I read it, I thought it was clearly a response to people (probably a specific person) who think that pain for the woman during sex is routine and normal. I gave it a cursory re-read, and I still think that. Obviously a lot of other people read it differently.
Every time I've had pain during sex, there has been something wrong. Most notable was the 10 months that I had an IUD. I mean... I didn't even have pain when I lost my virginity. Maybe it's not normal, but it IS possible.
Also, I think some people might get hung up on the "good pain" thing, because they like things rougher. I don't see that as real pain though... it is simply a different, more sharp pleasure.
I'm sorry that you were raped.
@seven45 - It's ok. Lessons can be learned from all things. After all, I did survive. It was 10 yrs ago.
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